Posts by Deputy Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

Don't you see the distinction between a parent instructing their child to do something, and a Master instructing their slave? I'm amazed, for even Paul made such a distinction!

The only people that are Gods children are those with faith in Christ, by adoption.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

Romans 8: 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children , then heirs; heirs of God , and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure God was a Good Master, and I'm sure it was not like a human master slave relationship.

How are you defining "righteousness"?

From G1342; equity (of character or act); specifically (Christian) justification: - righteousness.

They were? Where did they find the time-machine, to project them 3000 years into the future?

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

My point is merely that God doesn't actively make people do evil things. They are responsible for their own actions, in that regard, whether it comes from a "totally depraved" human nature, or from an "innocent" one, as in the case of Adam.

I think I side with Luther on this one. When ever any man is given a choice, he will always choose to sin. This is how we are slaves to sin. You see LT, I believe even though Adam and Eve were innocent, they were slaves. God commanded. They obeyed. They were innocent, but had no righteousness. After they sinned they were condemned, but, still slaves of the law, unto death. Now, grace comes along,

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I thank God LT that even though I'm still a sinner, I have Christ's righteousness, something that Adam and Eve never had before the fall. D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

Ew, Great job! Joshua 23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. LT When God brings evil on someone, is that like giving them a hand grenade and waiting for "them" to pull the pin? I like the word "Bring" (sorta looks like " cause ") better than "alow or permit". What do you think LT? According to these verses, it looks like God is dealing with evil directly, don't you think? Are you ready to call Him the God of good "and" evil? He doesn't seem to mind taking the credit for evil here. D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

My difficulty with the word "cause", in this context is that it takes the issue right down to the direct responsibility level, which I'm not happy with.

I don't see the action as being "totally caused" by God, where there is evil directly involved

If God isn't "directly responsible" where there is evil directly involved and man is totally depraved, it would seem to me, that after creation and the fall, He isn't directly responsible for anything in this world today, where man is concerned. That is not a very comforting thought. D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

God has the freedom to do things that would be sin, if man were to do them.

That wouldn't be possible. By your definition of sin, how is He able to break His own commands?
Didn't Christ's "passive obediance" show that it is impossible?

You lost me here buddy.

I agree that it was in the plan. What I essentially disagree with is that God invisibly moved Adam's hand or rational mind, to make it actively inevitable. He permitted it. Why do you have difficulty with that?

The reason I have a problem with that is because, for me the word "permit" suggests that God has to little control. You have a problem with the word "cause" because it gives Him responsibility. How would you feel about this? In any sinful action, there is action that is totally caused by God, (like Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery) and there is evil or sinful intent that is supplied by man. Could you agree with that statement? This would make sense out of the verse

Genesis 50:20

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. This may not solve all our differences, but, it may be a place to start. D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

Pseudo-Calvinist?
That's kinda insulting.

Wow! So you do want to burn me at the stake? I guess you really walk lock step with Calvin on everything. Well, put your torch away (for now) I was just kidding about how even though we seem to strongly disagree, we mean no harm to each other unlike some of the reformers. Forgive my sick humor, I didn't mean to insult you. I keep forgetting that you can't see how firmly my tongue was planted in my cheek.

Does God have the freedom to create sin?

No. Nor does he have the freedom to lie.
If you are going for the absolute freedom of God you might as well go the whole hog and ask: Does God have the freedom to sin?
How do you so answer?

God has the freedom to do things that would be sin, if man were to do them. God has the freedom to kill men at his discretion, is this murder? God has the freedom to take what ever he wants, is this theft? God has the freedom to send (strong) delusions, is this lying? God has the freedom to be jealous or covet, is this sin? The answer is no, because He is God. He determines what righteousness is. He also determines what sin and evil are. Man or Satan determine nothing of the kind. The freedom to create sin is not the same as committing it.

So did God make Adam sin?
Apparently so, if you read that text as God making everything, but how can it be that God made light and yet "the Word" IS light? Was "the Word" made of God? I think you're making trouble for yourself by running fast and loose with these kind of texts.

The problem here is you ask the question as if Adam's will was violated. We know Adam ate willingly and enjoyed it for a season. You must admit this was in God's plan.

A further problem with a black and white literalist viewpoint is that you end up with a legalistic and mechanistic God who has an arbitary definition of the word "grace".

Don't cloud the issue with this "black and white literalist viewpoint" crap. We both know what symbolism is and what figures of speech are. "without him was not any thing made that was made." If you want to say sin and evil were not made, say it. But, you will have problems if you say Satan created them. D Dog

245

Are Christians harmless?

by gumby in

first off....let me qualify something.

lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.

here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.

Deputy Dog

Gumby What I think Paul is saying here is, If Christ only does us good in this life, believers / Christians (we) " are of all men most miserable." So if it's not true, you should try to tell us (do us a favor). D Dog

17

People Imitate the God that they Worship--Good vs. Evil

by Undaunted Danny in

[ proverbs 6 .

warnings against folly

12 a scoundrel and villain, .

Deputy Dog

Dan

You may be onto something.

Romans 1:22

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

D Dog

245

Are Christians harmless?

by gumby in

first off....let me qualify something.

lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.

here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.

Deputy Dog

Gumby

Here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?

1Co 15:19

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

Gumby

I don't think anyone will be burned at the stake But, I wish more people cared about things like faith, God, church history, bible history and the like. Apathy and ignorance are how people get sucked into cults, in the first place.

This type of friendly dialog helps me to express my faith to others. It also causes me to look at my faith in a new way (from a different perspective). LT, EW and myself have enjoyed this and found it a blessing and helpful. I thank God for our differances.

D Dog

PS speaking of that pseudo-Calvinist where is LT